sis
Legacy Member
Weet niet of iemand zin heeft om te lezen , maar here it goes.
Mr. Yerli. is CO leader van crytek/farcry.
Let me tell you a lil something about the 6800U vs the x800Pro/XT. This PS3.0 hype that nV has you believing that it's far superior to PS2.0 in IQ is just that....hype. Check this out :
In an effort to uncover the truth behind Shader 3.0, we created a list of questions to ask Mr. Yerli. We were pleased to see that NVIDIA made no suggestions for questions and that the CEO was so willing to comply. Hopefully, these questions will help end all the speculation and myths regarding Shader 3.0 and we can all truly understand what its purpose is from the developer's point of view. It should be noted that all Mr. Yerli's responses are posted exactly as they were received. Given the informal nature of the interview and a bit of a language barrier, grammar and spelling might have been sacrificed in a few cases. Regardless, all the juicy information you're after is present and accounted for.
1) As a developer, what are the most convincing arguments for the use of Shader 3.0 over 2.0?
· In VS3.0 shader model actually is possible to support general displacement mapping (with smart shader design when vertex shader has to do something during waiting for texture access).
· In PS3.0 shaders it’s possible to decrease number of shaders using dynamic branching (single shader for general lighting) and in such way decrease number of shader switches, passes, and as result increase speed, and also we can utilize dynamic conditional early reject for some cases in both PS and VS and this also will increase speed. As to NV40 generally possible to use co-issues better to take advantage of super-scalar architecture (we can execute 4 instructions per cycle in a single pipeline).
· We can handle several light sources in single pixel shaders by using dynamic loops in PS3.0.
· We can decrease number of passes for 2-sided lighting using additional face register in PS3.0.
· We can use geometry instancing to decrease number of draw-calls (remove CPU limitations as much as possible).
· We can use unrestricted dependent texture read capabilities to produce more advanced post-processing effects and other in-game complex particles/surfaces effects (like water).
· We can use full swizzle support in PS3.0 to make better instructions co-issue and as result speedup performance.
· We can take advantage of using 10 texture interpolators in PS3.0 shader model to reduce number of passes in some cases.
2) As a developer, do you see any compromises or negative aspects resulting from the use of Shader 3.0 over 2.0?
3.0 shader model is just extension to 2.0 shader model. It means it’s possible to compile PS2.0 shader as PS3.0 shader target and it still remains 2.0 compliant shader from the hardware side. Several new features in 3.0 shader model aren’t for free. Texture access in vertex shader is expensive, dynamic branching is not for free. So if developer has to utilize some features of PS3.0 shader model he/she should design shader in way which will remove other much important bottlenecks of application (CPU limitations, states/shaders changing, make shorter shader execution path, decrease streams bandwidth…).
3) Was Crytek or any of its employees paid by NVIDIA to present at the launch event for the GeForce 6800 series?
I wish we would have got some Ferraris but nope!
4) Will we see an update for FarCry which enables Shader 3.0? If so, will this be for the entire game or for specific new maps? If a patch enabling Shader 3.0 in FarCry is pending, when can we expect to see it available?
Stay tuned.
5) Is Crytek planning on implementing Shader 3.0 on any/all titles following FarCry or is the company “testing the waters”?
In future generally for all new titles. We don’t have to test water, we know its warm there
6) For the screenshot examples shown at the launch event, why was PS 1.1 used to contrast PS 3.0? Why wasn’t a PS 2.0 screenshot compared to PS 3.0 instead?
#On the event PS1.1 was compared with PS2.0/PS3.0. We don’t use PS3.0 everywhere. The general rule is to use as lower shader version as possible. So PS3.0 could be used only in several critical places where it gives performance boost.
7) What aspects of the screenshots seen at the launch event are specific examples of the flexibility and power of Shader 3.0?
In current engine there are no visible difference between PS2.0 and PS3.0. PS3.0 is used automatically for per-pixel lighting depending on some conditions to improve speed of rendering.
8) Is the same level of image quality seen when using Shader 3.0 possible using Shader 2.0? If so, what dictates which Shader you decide to use?
In current generation engine quality of PS3.0 is almost the same as PS2.0. PS3.0 is used for performance optimisation purposes.
9) What is your opinion on 64-bit blending and filtering. Do you feel there are cases where it will make a difference to gamers?
64-bit blending and filtering can be used for HDR Rendering and also for soft shadows and other special effects such as Depth of Field. Beside this it is also useful for SAT texture mapping (Summed Area Tables). In video-games using of HDR & DOF will enable us to render real-time scenes very close to movie production quality which will increase realism in the imagery.
Conclusion
Taking what we have been shown of Shader 3.0 by NVIDIA and utilizing the information gathered within this interview, we begin to have a clearer picture of how Shader 3.0 will affect your gaming experience. Whereas many had taken the position that Shader 3.0 would make significant improvements in image quality over Shader 2.0, we are beginning to see that is hardly the case. Although the foundation is present in Shader 3.0 to give developers even more freedom to maximize image quality, the immediate gains seem to be based entirely upon performance. Mr. Yerli’s answer to question eight is an excellent summation of where we currently stand regarding Shader 3.0.
+"In current generation engine quality of PS3.0 is almost the same as PS2.0. PS3.0 is used for performance optimisation purposes."
How much of a performance benefit will Shader 3.0 provide the latest generation hardware? Unfortunately, we do not have the necessary tools in our hands to benchmark using each Shader model. As a result, we are left waiting for developers to begin utilizing this new feature before we will see any benefit in the latest games. However, should Crytek's perspective be indicative of other developer's impressions of Shader 3.0 we should begin to see this feature used extensively in the upcoming wave of next-generation titles.
Although this article will not serve as the final answer to any question regarding Shader 3.0, it certainly gives us a unique perspective from the developer. Should you wish to learn more about Shader 3.0 and all its intricacies, you can find a fair amount of information at the following Microsoft WinHEC page. Stay tuned for more information as we attempt to get our hands on some beta software and see how the next generation graphics cards handle this new feature.
# - Basically, PS3.0 is used for the 6800U for performance gain, but the x800XT/Pro uses PS2.0 and raw speed to keep pace with the 6800U - basically a theory floating around simply coz the darn card isn't out yet.....hence, nobody can say for sure which is faster, right?
+ - based the current gen game engine, PS3.0 may be a lil better than PS2.0. So when game engines use it, I think we'll be seeing NV50/R500.
Mr. Yerli. is CO leader van crytek/farcry.
Let me tell you a lil something about the 6800U vs the x800Pro/XT. This PS3.0 hype that nV has you believing that it's far superior to PS2.0 in IQ is just that....hype. Check this out :
In an effort to uncover the truth behind Shader 3.0, we created a list of questions to ask Mr. Yerli. We were pleased to see that NVIDIA made no suggestions for questions and that the CEO was so willing to comply. Hopefully, these questions will help end all the speculation and myths regarding Shader 3.0 and we can all truly understand what its purpose is from the developer's point of view. It should be noted that all Mr. Yerli's responses are posted exactly as they were received. Given the informal nature of the interview and a bit of a language barrier, grammar and spelling might have been sacrificed in a few cases. Regardless, all the juicy information you're after is present and accounted for.
1) As a developer, what are the most convincing arguments for the use of Shader 3.0 over 2.0?
· In VS3.0 shader model actually is possible to support general displacement mapping (with smart shader design when vertex shader has to do something during waiting for texture access).
· In PS3.0 shaders it’s possible to decrease number of shaders using dynamic branching (single shader for general lighting) and in such way decrease number of shader switches, passes, and as result increase speed, and also we can utilize dynamic conditional early reject for some cases in both PS and VS and this also will increase speed. As to NV40 generally possible to use co-issues better to take advantage of super-scalar architecture (we can execute 4 instructions per cycle in a single pipeline).
· We can handle several light sources in single pixel shaders by using dynamic loops in PS3.0.
· We can decrease number of passes for 2-sided lighting using additional face register in PS3.0.
· We can use geometry instancing to decrease number of draw-calls (remove CPU limitations as much as possible).
· We can use unrestricted dependent texture read capabilities to produce more advanced post-processing effects and other in-game complex particles/surfaces effects (like water).
· We can use full swizzle support in PS3.0 to make better instructions co-issue and as result speedup performance.
· We can take advantage of using 10 texture interpolators in PS3.0 shader model to reduce number of passes in some cases.
2) As a developer, do you see any compromises or negative aspects resulting from the use of Shader 3.0 over 2.0?
3.0 shader model is just extension to 2.0 shader model. It means it’s possible to compile PS2.0 shader as PS3.0 shader target and it still remains 2.0 compliant shader from the hardware side. Several new features in 3.0 shader model aren’t for free. Texture access in vertex shader is expensive, dynamic branching is not for free. So if developer has to utilize some features of PS3.0 shader model he/she should design shader in way which will remove other much important bottlenecks of application (CPU limitations, states/shaders changing, make shorter shader execution path, decrease streams bandwidth…).
3) Was Crytek or any of its employees paid by NVIDIA to present at the launch event for the GeForce 6800 series?
I wish we would have got some Ferraris but nope!
4) Will we see an update for FarCry which enables Shader 3.0? If so, will this be for the entire game or for specific new maps? If a patch enabling Shader 3.0 in FarCry is pending, when can we expect to see it available?
Stay tuned.
5) Is Crytek planning on implementing Shader 3.0 on any/all titles following FarCry or is the company “testing the waters”?
In future generally for all new titles. We don’t have to test water, we know its warm there
6) For the screenshot examples shown at the launch event, why was PS 1.1 used to contrast PS 3.0? Why wasn’t a PS 2.0 screenshot compared to PS 3.0 instead?
#On the event PS1.1 was compared with PS2.0/PS3.0. We don’t use PS3.0 everywhere. The general rule is to use as lower shader version as possible. So PS3.0 could be used only in several critical places where it gives performance boost.
7) What aspects of the screenshots seen at the launch event are specific examples of the flexibility and power of Shader 3.0?
In current engine there are no visible difference between PS2.0 and PS3.0. PS3.0 is used automatically for per-pixel lighting depending on some conditions to improve speed of rendering.
8) Is the same level of image quality seen when using Shader 3.0 possible using Shader 2.0? If so, what dictates which Shader you decide to use?
In current generation engine quality of PS3.0 is almost the same as PS2.0. PS3.0 is used for performance optimisation purposes.
9) What is your opinion on 64-bit blending and filtering. Do you feel there are cases where it will make a difference to gamers?
64-bit blending and filtering can be used for HDR Rendering and also for soft shadows and other special effects such as Depth of Field. Beside this it is also useful for SAT texture mapping (Summed Area Tables). In video-games using of HDR & DOF will enable us to render real-time scenes very close to movie production quality which will increase realism in the imagery.
Conclusion
Taking what we have been shown of Shader 3.0 by NVIDIA and utilizing the information gathered within this interview, we begin to have a clearer picture of how Shader 3.0 will affect your gaming experience. Whereas many had taken the position that Shader 3.0 would make significant improvements in image quality over Shader 2.0, we are beginning to see that is hardly the case. Although the foundation is present in Shader 3.0 to give developers even more freedom to maximize image quality, the immediate gains seem to be based entirely upon performance. Mr. Yerli’s answer to question eight is an excellent summation of where we currently stand regarding Shader 3.0.
+"In current generation engine quality of PS3.0 is almost the same as PS2.0. PS3.0 is used for performance optimisation purposes."
How much of a performance benefit will Shader 3.0 provide the latest generation hardware? Unfortunately, we do not have the necessary tools in our hands to benchmark using each Shader model. As a result, we are left waiting for developers to begin utilizing this new feature before we will see any benefit in the latest games. However, should Crytek's perspective be indicative of other developer's impressions of Shader 3.0 we should begin to see this feature used extensively in the upcoming wave of next-generation titles.
Although this article will not serve as the final answer to any question regarding Shader 3.0, it certainly gives us a unique perspective from the developer. Should you wish to learn more about Shader 3.0 and all its intricacies, you can find a fair amount of information at the following Microsoft WinHEC page. Stay tuned for more information as we attempt to get our hands on some beta software and see how the next generation graphics cards handle this new feature.
# - Basically, PS3.0 is used for the 6800U for performance gain, but the x800XT/Pro uses PS2.0 and raw speed to keep pace with the 6800U - basically a theory floating around simply coz the darn card isn't out yet.....hence, nobody can say for sure which is faster, right?
+ - based the current gen game engine, PS3.0 may be a lil better than PS2.0. So when game engines use it, I think we'll be seeing NV50/R500.
tziet er echt mega schoon uit, en volgens mij hebde er geen extra shader bestanden voor nodig. Tis gewoon feit van het 'aan te zetten' of niet.
mannekes toch nr 1 post heeft overschot van gelijk, gamers lek ik wete zo een dinge ni en da is ne keer fijn om zoiet te lezen en wille de gamers die er dan oooh zoveel van afweten een nuttige discussie voeren want wa ge hebt bereikt is dak nog altij niks bijgeleerd heb 
of het nu ati of nvidia is. en dat ie zegt van dat mensen een kaart willen die een paar jaar meegaan. maar imao ,, ps 2.0 moet nog beginnen. hij praat zelf over zulke grote tijdsverschillen (jaren) maar hij vergeet dat ps 3.0 hetzelfde eruitziet als ps2.0 en tja we weten dat ati ff iets anders hun chip bouwt dan Nvidia 
dus NVIDIA (doet iets waar nog niks van zeker is (zie de fx range) tegen de raw power van ATI (denk eraan dat ps2.0 hetzelde is als ps3.0)
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