Archief - PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker en Absolute Poker aangeklaagd in Verenigde Staten
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gilius_caesar
Legacy Member
They took our jobs bro!
Poker Websites Shut Down; U.S. Pros Mull Move Abroad - TIME
Poker Websites Shut Down; U.S. Pros Mull Move Abroad - TIME
gilius_caesar
Legacy Member
VinhoSantos
Legacy Member
Goeie PhotoShop thread hierover:
Howard Lederer missing!! (photoshop thread) - Poker News - News, Views and Gossip
Howard Lederer missing!! (photoshop thread) - Poker News - News, Views and Gossip
CuRv3
Legacy Member
1. Ivey heeft een aanklacht ingediend tegen Tiltware (marketing bedrijf van full tilt)
2. van een source dicht bij FT Nick Rainey:
- 100% rakeback accounts werden verkocht voor 10/40/50k dollar per maand
- patrick antonius had 40 accounts met rakeback
- Degenyamine heeft via 1 of andere werknemer van FT 4M+ dollar gekregen en allemaal verloren (was de reden waarom hij 5 maand geen red pro meer was)
2. van een source dicht bij FT Nick Rainey:
- 100% rakeback accounts werden verkocht voor 10/40/50k dollar per maand
- patrick antonius had 40 accounts met rakeback
- Degenyamine heeft via 1 of andere werknemer van FT 4M+ dollar gekregen en allemaal verloren (was de reden waarom hij 5 maand geen red pro meer was)
nunji
Legacy Member
QuadJacks FOREVER on USTREAM: Online Poker they took our JOBS.
nick rainey live @ quadjacks
@ Phil Ivey kan je ivey zen posts lezen
nick rainey live @ quadjacks
@ Phil Ivey kan je ivey zen posts lezen
CuRv3
Legacy Member
Let me understand this correctly...
A few businessmen and high profile poker pros get together to start FTP. The businessmen and the high profile poker pros all get rich on customers of FTP. The company has trouble debiting customer accounts, but in order to keep the site healthy it gives the players money on credit and wracks up some debt (50MM?). The company pursues a very aggressive rakeback gameplan to get business and also is rumored to fund its marketing budget from its player deposits.
Post black friday the company owes something like $150MM to US players in deposits of which they probably spent a portion of and then lent out $50MM.
They had several options after black friday.
1) Try to raise money via equity or debt to fill the black hole.
2) To use player funds of the non-US customers to pay back all or part of the US player money they owe, and risk shutting down the one legal and working part of their business.
3) To stall and try to earn their way out of the problem with their existing business, while trying to accomplish 1).
4) F*** it, let's just run away dutch boyd style.
Everyone is hating on FTP's handling of this situation. But seriously, what would you do once you found yourself in their black friday predicament? The best thing to do is to keep the site running, keep earning rake, and to find someone who wants to gamble by giving them an equity stake. They clearly need a certain amount of cash on hand to keep the site going, and they would be idiotic to alienate foreign players to try to satisfy the US players who can't help them out of their current problem. Stalling and telling your employees and red pro's to shut the f up is probably not a bad business decision.
This company was very aggressive and took lots of chances. Many people got rich based off of this aggressive model, including Phil Ivey who benefitted immensely from the success of FTP. Specifically, he benefitted from their aggressive marketing plans, of which it is very possible were 'borrowed' from player funds. Now Phil Ivey comes out and protests by suing FTP and by boycotting the WSOP. This CLEARLY does not help FTP's situation and it CLEARLY does not help people like me who have money stuck on FTP.
Ivey confirmed out fears: FTP was an overly aggressive company and does not have our money on hand. This will likely lead to further non-american withdrawals as everyones' worse fears about the state of FTP are confirmed.
There is an argument to be made that Ivey took the easy way out. Now he doesn't have to field ANY questions about FTP because he's one of *us* and because he's not at the WSOP. He is abandoning the company that helped him profit immensely and trying to side with regular FTP players.
Even more shocking are the details of this lawsuit--where the primary goal is to absolve him of any contractual obligations to FTP. And to sue FTP for making him look bad.
If he cared about people's money stuck in FTP, his statement and subsequent actions would go something like this:
"Full tilt poker got caught with its pants down on black friday. We made lots of mistakes and we deserve criticism. I am not trying to hide the fact that I made lots of money from FTP in the past. I want to personally guarantee that FTP will return funds ASAP. At the current level of foreign business on FTP, we will have your funds ready for you in 7-8 months*. I will do my best to market the brand abroad and try to preserve the legitimacy of FTP. Going forward, if we are ever back in the US, we will be diligent about having player deposits on hand and we will never be caught in this situation again. These events have done harm to my personal reputation and I will do my best to help FTP get itself out of this mess. FTP will make good on its debts and we will all learn from this awful situation."
* pure guess by me... but a fair guess that doesnt stall or hide facts
instead of
"I'm suing FTP. It's a scam. Now they're going to spend resources dealing with me in court. For sure I just scared of any potential investors in this POS. They ruined my reputation. I don't want to ever have to work with these people going forward. I'm sitting out the WSOP to protest how badly this company behaved and because people will think I'm a saint for sitting it out--even though this just hurts everyone waiting for their money. I also don't have to be in the spot light and deal with media. Now that I--the most recognizable name in poker--jumped ship, it's going to make earning their way out of their problems almost impossible. I bet the owners just end up running away to Venezuela after this. Good luck getting your money back."
Anyone with a brain understands how and why people like Lederer, Ivey and others would get involve with FTP. No one would fault them for being sponsored by FTP and making money. I do however think it is fair to fault Ivey for abandoning their former personal gravy trains when the going got hard and for making it harder for the average guy to get his money back.
The thousand people on here clapping for Ivey today need to think harder about why they are clapping if you ask me.
Jason Strasser
A few businessmen and high profile poker pros get together to start FTP. The businessmen and the high profile poker pros all get rich on customers of FTP. The company has trouble debiting customer accounts, but in order to keep the site healthy it gives the players money on credit and wracks up some debt (50MM?). The company pursues a very aggressive rakeback gameplan to get business and also is rumored to fund its marketing budget from its player deposits.
Post black friday the company owes something like $150MM to US players in deposits of which they probably spent a portion of and then lent out $50MM.
They had several options after black friday.
1) Try to raise money via equity or debt to fill the black hole.
2) To use player funds of the non-US customers to pay back all or part of the US player money they owe, and risk shutting down the one legal and working part of their business.
3) To stall and try to earn their way out of the problem with their existing business, while trying to accomplish 1).
4) F*** it, let's just run away dutch boyd style.
Everyone is hating on FTP's handling of this situation. But seriously, what would you do once you found yourself in their black friday predicament? The best thing to do is to keep the site running, keep earning rake, and to find someone who wants to gamble by giving them an equity stake. They clearly need a certain amount of cash on hand to keep the site going, and they would be idiotic to alienate foreign players to try to satisfy the US players who can't help them out of their current problem. Stalling and telling your employees and red pro's to shut the f up is probably not a bad business decision.
This company was very aggressive and took lots of chances. Many people got rich based off of this aggressive model, including Phil Ivey who benefitted immensely from the success of FTP. Specifically, he benefitted from their aggressive marketing plans, of which it is very possible were 'borrowed' from player funds. Now Phil Ivey comes out and protests by suing FTP and by boycotting the WSOP. This CLEARLY does not help FTP's situation and it CLEARLY does not help people like me who have money stuck on FTP.
Ivey confirmed out fears: FTP was an overly aggressive company and does not have our money on hand. This will likely lead to further non-american withdrawals as everyones' worse fears about the state of FTP are confirmed.
There is an argument to be made that Ivey took the easy way out. Now he doesn't have to field ANY questions about FTP because he's one of *us* and because he's not at the WSOP. He is abandoning the company that helped him profit immensely and trying to side with regular FTP players.
Even more shocking are the details of this lawsuit--where the primary goal is to absolve him of any contractual obligations to FTP. And to sue FTP for making him look bad.
If he cared about people's money stuck in FTP, his statement and subsequent actions would go something like this:
"Full tilt poker got caught with its pants down on black friday. We made lots of mistakes and we deserve criticism. I am not trying to hide the fact that I made lots of money from FTP in the past. I want to personally guarantee that FTP will return funds ASAP. At the current level of foreign business on FTP, we will have your funds ready for you in 7-8 months*. I will do my best to market the brand abroad and try to preserve the legitimacy of FTP. Going forward, if we are ever back in the US, we will be diligent about having player deposits on hand and we will never be caught in this situation again. These events have done harm to my personal reputation and I will do my best to help FTP get itself out of this mess. FTP will make good on its debts and we will all learn from this awful situation."
* pure guess by me... but a fair guess that doesnt stall or hide facts
instead of
"I'm suing FTP. It's a scam. Now they're going to spend resources dealing with me in court. For sure I just scared of any potential investors in this POS. They ruined my reputation. I don't want to ever have to work with these people going forward. I'm sitting out the WSOP to protest how badly this company behaved and because people will think I'm a saint for sitting it out--even though this just hurts everyone waiting for their money. I also don't have to be in the spot light and deal with media. Now that I--the most recognizable name in poker--jumped ship, it's going to make earning their way out of their problems almost impossible. I bet the owners just end up running away to Venezuela after this. Good luck getting your money back."
Anyone with a brain understands how and why people like Lederer, Ivey and others would get involve with FTP. No one would fault them for being sponsored by FTP and making money. I do however think it is fair to fault Ivey for abandoning their former personal gravy trains when the going got hard and for making it harder for the average guy to get his money back.
The thousand people on here clapping for Ivey today need to think harder about why they are clapping if you ask me.
Jason Strasser
Het archief is een bevroren moment uit een vorige versie van dit forum, met andere regels en andere bazen. Deze posts weerspiegelen op geen enkele manier onze huidige ideeën, waarden of wereldbeelden en zijn op sommige plaatsen gecensureerd wegens ontoelaatbaar. Veel zijn in een andere tijdsgeest gemaakt, al dan niet ironisch - zoals in het ironische subforum Off-Topic - en zouden op dit moment niet meer gepost (mogen) worden. Toch bieden we dit archief nog graag aan als informatiedatabank en naslagwerk. Lees er hier meer over of start een gesprek met anderen.