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Phil zei:En who cares op zich, serieus...
Dat gaat uw leven totaal niet veranderen als ge geen misdadiger zijt...
Er kunnen misschien een paar ethische bezwaren zijn, but then again...
Nooit meer een portefeuille moeten meezeulen, gewoon pols over betaalautomaat, et voila, rekening betaald, wat moet ge nog meer hebben?
Alleen al dat punt maakt het de moeite waard vind ik.
hitman47 zei:"ik doe niks verkeerd dus ik ben er niet bang van"
Het probleem begint pas als het systeem verkeerd is! Wat als men morgen roken compleet illegaal maakt, alcohol drinken compleet illegaal maakt....Eens die chip erin zit moet ge ni gaan rebelleren dan is het te laat.

DAVID ICKE NEWSLETTER, 3RD SEPTEMBER 2006
CHIP AND BIN ..
... PIED PIPER-ED TO SERVITUDE
Hello all ...
I have been saying for years that the Big Brother society is already far more deeply entrenched in our lives than even some more aware people realise.
The thing to understand is that the most insidious technology and surveillance is never made public and only comes to light when it seeps out through leaks or accident. No-one knew publicly the extent of government phone tapping in the United States until it came out through non-official routes and even that was only a fraction of what is actually happening minute by minute.
I have also said again and again that it is in the apparently trivial and insignificant that the true extent of control and surveillance can be recognised. For instance, take the wheelie bin.
What can a simple rubbish bin with wheels have to do with the agenda for global control? What could be more innocent than putting out the trash? Answer one: plenty, it seems. Answer two: the age of innocence is over until we have removed the soulless ones who are leading us, pipes-a-playing, into the Orwellian nightmare.
It has emerged that half a million British wheelie bins have been microchipped, mostly by German-based companies, with the rest of the country apparently destined to follow. Similar systems are at work throughout Europe. Yep, microchipping has now reached the trash can, as they say in America, and it is being dubbed 'chip and bin' after the credit card chip and pin system in the UK.
The microchips transmit information from the bin to a central database with the potential to keep a record of what rubbish each householder throws out. Even the garbage is no longer private.
None of this was stated publicly so some kind of debate could ensue. It was done without telling anyone and only found its way into the media this week when a council official mentioned the chips at a Rotary Club dinner. If they are even secretly bugging your bin, what the hell else is the Hidden Hand doing without our knowledge?
The London Mail on Sunday describes how the bin-bugging system works:
'With the bugging technology, the electronic chips are carefully hidden under the moulded front "lip" of wheelie bins used by householders for non-recyclable waste. As the bin is raised by the mechanical hoister at the back of the truck, the chip passes across an antenna fitted to the lifting mechanism. That enables the antenna to "read" a serial number assigned to each property in the street.
A computer inside the truck weighs the bin as it is raised, subtracts the weight of the bin itself and records the weight of the contents on an electronic data card.
When the truck returns to the depot, all the information collected on the round is transmitted to a hand-held device and downloaded on to the council's centralised computer. Each household can be billed for the amount of waste collected - even though they have already paid for the services through their council tax.'
The official justification for bin-bugging is to 'improve efficiency' and, get this, to settle disputes between neighbours about the ownership of wheelie bins. Martin Smith, head of Environmental Services at Kennet District Council, said:
'These are simply chips that will enable us to sort out disputes between householders about whose wheelie bin is whose. If there are any arguments we can just send out an officer to scan the chip and settle the argument. There is a debate in Government over the possibility of introducing charges but that's not what we had in mind when we ordered the chips.'
So they planning to spend two pounds to bug every wheelie bin in Britain, and fifteen thousand pounds to fit the technology to every waste truck, just to decide arguments on who owns a wheelie bin??
They also talk about the need to recycle waste more efficiently, but this, too, is, well, rubbish. The real reason is control. Some waste disposal specialists say the idea is to gather the information to fine people for not putting the right waste in the right bin and, stands back in amazement, the Blair government is preparing to give councils new powers in this regard.
Steve Foster, sales director of PM OnBoard, which fits weighing equipment to waste disposal trucks, said his company already had a full database of names and addresses and they were ready to introduce new fees for rubbish collection as soon as the law allows.
But still the true reason is beyond even that.
The mass of surveillance in all areas of our lives need to be seen as a whole, not just as individual parts. The bin bugging is significant in the way it highlights how Big Brother is infiltrating the fine detail of our lives, but it is even more important when viewed with all the other gathering intrusions.
Walk across towns and cities today and you are likely to pass from camera to camera recording your every movement. Go into a store or an ATM and the same happens. When your children go to school they are increasingly watched by cameras, preparing the next generation to accept this intrusion as a normal part of life.
Traffic cameras check your speed and a few miles an hour over the limit, no matter what the circumstances (unless you are a police officer), means an instant fine in the UK.
The satellite network can already photograph your licence plate from space and soon all new cars will have to carry chips that connect them to satellites to track the details of your every journey.
They are also preparing for the satellite system to connect with the human microchips planned to be introduced as soon as the public has been manipulated enough by the 'war on terror' to allow it.
When you work at the computer or use the phone you are being recorded by a system searching for key words or, if you are on their watch-list, every word. A glimpse at the scale of phone tapping in the United States has more recently come to light, but the true and enormous extent of Internet tracking, email surveillance and web surfing is not publicly known.
The sum total of all this, and so much more, is to turn people into a bar-coded 'commodity' tracked and recorded every day of their lives. What you say, where you go, what you buy, what you eat, what you drink, even what you throw in the rubbish bin are all being downloaded into vast data bases. Privacy? How do you spell that again, it's one of those old words my mother talked about, isn't it?
The idea is to make surveillance and control so much a feature of life that we acquiesce to its dictates even without being forced to by a uniform or dark suit. The real goal of all this is to make people so servile and robotic that the cattle prods in their now endless forms become almost unnecessary. Unquestioning compliance alone will keep the sheep in the pen.
The principle they are using is the same as that used on laboratory mice or rats. You keep shocking them when they take a route in the maze you don't want and in the end they avoid those routes even without being shocked.
This is where the true significance of the wheelie bin bugging can be appreciated. Think of all the times every day you are told what to do, either directly or by a sign of some kind. Think of all the times you are aware of the consequences of not complying with authority, for instance always watching for traffic cameras in case you go slightly over the limit, or the fear of authority that now pervades every airport. Imagine what driving will be like when your speed and location is constantly tracked from space wherever you are. Think of how many times you watch what you say because it might upset some authority or breach the ludicrous limits set by political correctness.
Now, be careful and aware of the consequences from authority if you don't throw out the rubbish in the 'right' way.
What all this does, and there are endless more examples, is to make people consciously and subconsciously aware of authority and fear not doing as they are told. As this happens more and more often in ever greater areas of our lives, there comes a point, different for each person, where they reach the stage of unquestioning, unthinking, acquiescence. They no longer need a shock, in other words.
In 1932, Aldous Huxley wrote in the way-ahead-of-its-time, Brave New World, that the infiltration of the mind by the state would continue through suggestion until ...
'... at last the child's mind is these suggestions, and the sum of the suggestions is the child's mind. And not the child's mind only. The adult's mind too - all his life long. The mind that judges and desires and decides - made up of these suggestions. But all these suggestions are our suggestions ... Suggestions from the State.'
The goal is to subjugate the human mind to follow a pattern of response every bit as extreme as the laboratory rat walking round the maze without needing external intervention about which way to go. Unthinking acquiescence sums up this state of 'mind' - the comfort zone where conformity = comfort. An Internet article I saw this week put it all very well:
'The reconstruction of your consciousness into this automaton thing is being executed in such a manner that it goes virtually undetected; in fact you are doing it to yourself and don't even know it. Why with the proper incentive, you're doing it to yourself and just love it - look at all the "stuff" you have. You're so comfortable you have become passive, submissive, and you don't even have to think. You just go with the flow. It feels good and quite natural running on automatic.
However, disrupt your automatic mental state with even the simplest of problems - like misplacing your keys or wallet - and life becomes a living hell in your mind until you find those keys or wallet to re-establish your habitual routine. This becomes true of any little problem in life. You want it resolved as fast as possible, to stop the mental frustration, torment and confusion. You have become so addicted to living life under the control of others that even small annoyances become stressful events in your life.'
How do we avoid such programmed conformity? Simple: we don't conform and we don't pressure others to do so - our children, friends or workmates. We celebrate diversity of thought and lifestyle instead of condemning it.
Nor do we accept the impositions of the State, like microchipped wheelie bins or whatever. Tom Seaman, a Wiltshire farmer, urged residents to protest by unscrewing the bugs from the bins and sending them back to the council. He said:
'This is a disgraceful backdoor policy. Monitoring devices have been secretly installed without a word of consultation or information. People should not damage council property but send these things back to their rightful owners and demand an explanation.'
What would happen if everyone, or significant numbers, did that? The policy would be unenforceable and it would have to stop. When enough people refused to pay Margaret Thatcher's deeply unfair 'Poll Tax' in the late 1980s the government had to throw it out.
WE have the power, but only if we choose to use it.
The creeping, step-by-step suffocation of our freedom through the Totalitarian Tiptoe will only be stopped when we decide to stop it - when we stand for what is right instead of jeering from across the street while not actually getting involved in action.
It really is choice time. We can sit and moan or we can stand and deliver. We can take our freedom back from the fascists or we can follow this fella ...
David Icke Newsletter, November 4th 2006
THE MICROCHIP AGENDA ...
... THE PENNY DROPS AT LAST?
Hello all ...
We reached a significant milestone this week with a near-official acknowledgement that we are heading for mass human microchipping within a decade as we 'sleep walk' into the 'Surveillance Society'.
This suggested timescale is highly optimistic because unless we awaken from the trance very soon we are talking far less than ten years, but, most importantly, the prospect of the bar-coded human is being discussed in the mainstream.
It is a long way from the days a decade and more ago when my very suggestion that we were heading for microchipped people was guaranteed to trigger guffaws and belly laughs. But no more.
This week, Britain's Information Commissioner, Richard Thomas, responded to a report into the use of surveillance technology that warns that people may be forced to be microchipped 'like pet dogs' to track their movements and store personal information which, of course, would no longer be personal to anyone with a chip reader. The chips could be used not only by the government, says the report, but also by companies to keep tabs on employees. We would, as I have been warning for so long, be like monkeys in an electronic cage, rats in an electronic maze.
The report was edited by Dr David Murakami-Wood, managing editor of the journal Surveillance and Society and Dr Kirstie Ball, an Open University lecturer in Organisation Studies, and was produced by a group of academics called the Surveillance Studies Network. They say that by 2016 almost every movement, purchase and communication could be monitored by a complex network of interlinking surveillance technologies -unless we turn back from the brink pretty damn quick. 'The call for everyone to be implanted is now being seriously debated', the authors warn. Dr David Murakami-Wood said:
'We really do have a society which is premised both on state secrecy and the state not giving up its supposed right to keep information under control while, at the same time, wanting to know as much as it can about us.'
The report points out that Britain, which claims to spread 'freedom and democracy', is the planetary leader in surveillance technology and the British are the most spied-upon nation in what is so ironically called the 'free world'. And what is happening in Britain is planned, indeed is being introduced, in the rest of Europe, North America and elsewhere.
There are four million closed circuit television cameras in the UK for a population of just 60 million. The UK Home Office spent an astonishing 78 per cent of its crime prevention budget in the 1990s on installing the cameras. On average you are caught on camera in Britain 300 times a day -every 4.8 minutes -but in the cities it is even more extreme. The latest development, straight from the pages of Orwell's 1984, are cameras with speakers that allow operators to issue orders to people they are spying on.
There are 6,000 speed cameras in the UK, 8,000 number plate recognition devices with technology on the way to photograph anyone using their mobile phone at the wheel or not wearing a seat belt. Last March the London Metropolitan Police took possession of 'eye in the sky' cameras that can read number plates from helicopters thousands of feet above the ground, and remotely-controlled 'drone' aircraft are to be used in Scotland to spy on the people. This very week members of Parliament called for even more speed cameras when even a government report found that 85% of road accidents are not connected to drivers breaking the speed limit.
We have technology to identify faces in crowds and 'suspicious behaviour patterns' with 'lie detectors' being planned for airports. The so-called Oyster card used on the London underground requires people to register their personal details so that their every journey can be logged down to the minute. There are plans to expand this around the country. As a result of Blair's Regulation of Investigatory Powers Bill, passed in 2000, internet providers have to record our surfing activity and provide this information to MI5. Phone calls, emails and faxes are being monitored by the Echelon spy network that searches for key words and voice recognition patterns.
All this detailed information is kept on a giant data base that connects all other data bases and allows a stream of 'public bodies' to access everything about you and your life. Even not registering your name and address on the electoral roll will be subject to a fine of 2,500 pounds.
The Children Act of 2004 creates a database to record detailed information about our children right down to their eating habits and this can be accessed by police, doctors, social workers and teachers. In July 2006, three 12-year-olds in the English West Midlands had their DNA taken after being arrested by police for ... breaking branches while building a den. DNA is now taken as a matter of course when anyone is arrested and this is kept on file even if they are subsequently not charged or found to be innocent.
The scale of what is happening is simply staggering.
But the key to global control is microchipped people -that's what they want more than anything. Even now, you don't have to take those Underground Oyster cards out of your pocket because they are read automatically by radiowaves and it's the same with the new microchipped passports. It is only one step to embed this technology permanently under the skin. In December 2005, the Giove A satellite was sent into orbit as part of the Galileo European navigation system. This will allow 'Galileo chips' to be embedded in devices of every kind, but the real target is humanity.
The United States appears to lead the world in the use of human microchips thanks to the vociferous work of a deeply sinister company that I identified in my books many years ago. This is the VeriChip Corporation and it is part of an operation called Applied Digital. These 'VeriChips' are being marketed as a way of keeping us safe or, as the company says on its website --'Safeguarding what's important to you'. In the interests of accuracy it should add: 'So long as freedom is not important to you'. The VeriChip Corporation is now aggressively marketing human microchips to hospitals (the 'VeriMed Physician Network'), for Alzheimer's patients, and as security devices. In 2006, two employees of a company in Ohio were chipped to access a secure area.
The authors of this week's report say that 'the surveillance society has come about us without us realising'. But that depends on which way you have been looking all these years. I have been warning about this from the early 90s and so have many others and it has only 'crept up' on people because they haven't been paying attention. When you do, it's been obvious.
Idiots like Professor Kevin Warwick of Britain's Reading University have been very public supporters of microchipping and it was he who suggested the microchipping of children after the murders of ten-year-old Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman in 2002. Warwick was chipped himself amid great publicity so that he could interact with technology through a connection to his central nervous system. His website says:
'Kevin Warwick has taken the first steps ... using himself as a guinea pig test-subject receiving, by surgical operation, technological implants connected to his central nervous system ...
... Overriding everything, at the expense of a normal life, is Kevin's all encompassing scientific quest and desire to be a Cyborg ... part human, part machine.'
But Warwick's level of knowledge is not in the same universe as that available to the secret projects that are waiting to foist the real deal on humanity. This week's report on the gathering surveillance focussed on tracking people through microchipping and not on the other aspect of all this -controlling thoughts, emotions and thus behaviour. Thought patterns can be transmitted through the chips that the target takes to be their own and this can go as far as generating apparent 'voices in the head' and hallucinations. Forget fixing 'elections' through dodgy voting machines if we are stupid enough to succumb to the chip. There will be no need.
As one article put it:
'Every thought, reaction, hearing, and visual observation causes a certain neurological potential, spikes, and patterns in the brain and its electromagnetic fields, which can now be decoded into thoughts, pictures, and voices. Electromagnetic stimulation can therefore change a person's brainwaves and affect muscular activity, causing painful muscular cramps experienced as torture ...'
...The NSA's electronic surveillance system can simultaneously follow and handle millions of people. Each of us has a unique bioelectrical resonance frequency in the brain, just as we have unique fingerprints. With electromagnetic frequency (EMF) brain stimulation fully coded, pulsating electromagnetic signals can be sent to the brain causing the desired voice and visual effects to be experienced by the target. This is a form of electronic warfare. U.S. astronauts were implanted before they were sent into space so their thoughts could be followed and all their emotions could be registered 24 hours a day.'
I was told all this in 1997 by a CIA scientist who was desperate to alert people to what was planned. The state-of-the-art chips today are far smaller than a human hair and carry fantastic potential for control. So while this week's public report is a very good contribution to warning people of their plight, it is still operating at a limited level of knowledge and understanding. Richard Thomas, the UK Information Commissioner, said:
'We're waking up in a surveillance society and when you start to see how many apparently beneficial schemes are in place to monitor people's activities and movements that does raise concerns. There are risks the information is going to be mishandled'.
The point that is missed, however, is that it is already being purposely mishandled because what is happening is not the consequence of random technological development posing risks to freedom. It is being introduced for the very reasons of control. Thomas said that many of the surveillance schemes were 'public sector driven and the individual has no choice about whether they take part'. So the next obvious question, surely, is what is the force that dictates this surveillance policy through the public sector like the government and police and through 'private' business? This is the question that most people, including those involved in 'civil liberties', never seem to ask or grasp.
Even now, with Orwell's world looking us in the eye, people who should know better still don't appear to see what we are facing here. The civil rights group, Liberty, is among them. A spokesman said this week, in response to the report, that they had nothing against these surveillance technologies in themselves, but the danger was that they would not be 'properly regulated' and people could find themselves living in 'a surveillance society'.
'Find themselves'?? We're already there for goodness sake -helloooo, intelligent life calling Planet Earth. It is this state of denial that we need to overcome. With each new technological imposition I hear it said that we are 'heading towards a Big Brother state' when we are already in one. Maybe it's comforting to think that somehow we can still stop it happening if we keep projecting our thoughts into the 'future'. But we can't stop it because it is already here.
What we can do is dismantle it and stop its further invasion, but this can only happen if we stop denying where we already are. It's like saying we will be struck by a tornado if we don't do something when we are already 50 feet off the ground spinning like a top.
I see the same with so many in the anti-war groups who protest about the 'evil' of the American and British governments while denying that the same force will also control whoever replaces them. This was encapsulated this week by an interview I saw with Madonna on BBC Television.
She was asked about her protests against Bush and the war in Iraq and she said that anyone who had children would be instinctively horrified by what was happening to Iraqi kids. Fair enough, but then she was asked who she would like to be the next US President and she replied ... Hillary Clinton. When it comes to the capacity for generating evil, Clinton is more than a match even for Boy Bush, but Madonna has bought the window dressing and the image-making that promotes the Republicans and the Democrats as different 'sides'.
Only when we see the one force manipulating through all 'sides' and the same force orchestrating the Orwellian society through both the public and private sectors will the million dollars drop and not, as with this week's report, merely the penny.
Most importantly, we need to understand the true nature of the surveillance conspiracy and the crucial part played by human microchipping. As that CIA scientist told me nearly ten years ago: 'Tell people that if they say “no” to just one thing, they should say “no” to the microchip.'
Wise words from someone who has seen the game from the inside and we ignore them at the cost of our most basic freedoms.
Right...wat een bullshit.. de huidige supercomputer die deze code kan kraken doet er zowat een biljoen jaar over... als je niets kent over de technologie achter de encryptie van RFID chips en het systeem moet je er ook niet zo over zitten zeveren..Thallyos zei:Als dat zou gebeuren springen hackers van overal op die zaak en ik denk niet dat het lang zal duren voordat ze het hele systeem gekraakt zullen hebben. Die RFID chips zijn uit te lezen door iedereen met een lezer, het enige wat ze dan nog moeten doen is de encryptie kraken, wat bij alle huidige RFID-toepassingen telkens al gelukt is.
Wat gaat dat dan zijn als we allemaal zoiets hebben. Telkens als het systeem gekraakt is verplicht eventjes naar het gemeentehuis voor een firmwareupgrade van die chip?
Gelukkig is België nog een land dat privacy van zijn burgers tamelijk respecteert (al zakken we daar ook in de laatste tijd). Wat veel mensen hier vergeten is dat privacy een grondwettelijk recht is. Het gaat er niet om dat je niet moet bangzijn als je niets verkeerd doet, h et gaat er gewoon om dat de overheid niet het recht heeft om zo in je privacy in te grijpen.
Ik wil doen, gaan en staan waar ik wil (binnen de grenzen van de wet) zonder dat de overheid (en aanverwante bedrijven die toegang zullen krijgen, nmbs/delijn en via via zeker ook reclamebedrijven) weet waar ik allemaal ga en wat ik allemaal doe. Dat is mijn recht op privacy en dat wil ik ook zo houden. Het is jammer dat velen hier zo (afgestompt?) zijn dat ze zich maar laten doen.

De technologie is wel degelijk zo lek als een zeef. ID-card lezers zullen voor dergelijke draadloze ID toepassingen (en dan bedoel ik enkel voor dit geval, niet voor RFID in het algemeen) wijdverspreid zijn en dus helemaal niet moeilijk om te reverse engineeren (zet er bvb tweehonderd Russische hackers op). Code kraken met brute force wordt al lang niet meer gedaan, er wordt gewoon gezocht naar de achterpoortjes in het systeemGrayfox zei:Right...wat een bullshit.. de huidige supercomputer die deze code kan kraken doet er zowat een biljoen jaar over... als je niets kent over de technologie achter de encryptie van RFID chips en het systeem moet je er ook niet zo over zitten zeveren..
.
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je zou die chip gewoon in je identiteitskaart kunnen steken, of als oorring, ring, in je horloge, in je haar, gelijk waar, das superklein. Maar gewoon in de identiteitskaart lijkt me het simpelst, ge moet het niet te ver gaan zoeken hé, jouw ideëen van implantaten vind ik wel een beetje belachelijk 
Hetzelfde met de schrik t.o.v. digitaal tekenen, bedrijven die voor zekerheid nog afdruk op papier willen, ... . Onterechte schrik & blijven vastklampen aan huidige (wrsch onbetrouwbaardere) middellen.Epyon zei:Wat die RFID inplants betreft, het is natuurlijk allemaal wat overrated. Het is niet alsof de overheid met hun datamining nu al niet kan weten wat je waar en hoe gekocht hebt (op voorwaarde dat je elektronisch betaalt). RFID paspoorten beginnen overigens ook al ingeburgerd te geraken, ook al zijn ze helemaal niet veilig (zie UK). Doet me wat denken aan de huidige psychose in de VS omdat ze daar ook een paspoort willen invoeren ('oh nee, ze weten nu alles van ons!', alsof we hier in België daar last mee hebben).
Epyon zei:Ik stel me wel vragen bij de doeltreffendheid van die implantaten. Afgezien van het risico op weefselschade, zwervende chips en kanker is zo'n RFID chip ook enorm kwetsbaar aan EM. Je zal door niet teveel airport scanners moeten lopen, wil je nog dat het ding werkt. De RFID paspoorten zijn daartegen beschermd met een klepje, maar je kan jezelf moeilijk in alu folie draaien iedere keer als je door een scanner stapt.
Grayfox zei:Tis die paranoia die zoveel mensen hebben dat de vooruitgang van de technologie grotendeels tegenhoudt. Niet dat de technologie noodzakelijk is, maar tzou natuurlijk wel cool zijn en ik zie er veel meer voordelen in dan nadelen. Simpele technologie, simpele toepassingen.. Die paranoia is nergens voor nodig. So what als iemand je identiteitskaart kan lezen? Dat heb je altijd verplicht bij en de politie mag die altijd opvragen. Dus als je daarmee akkoord bent, wat is er dan mis dat een gewone burger dit ook doet, of is de politie meer waard ofzo, die kan da ook voor persoonlijke doeleinden gebruiken als hij wil. Paranoia belemmert echt wel de technologische vooruitgang imo
En ofcourse, die implantaten gaan wel een beetje verje zou die chip gewoon in je identiteitskaart kunnen steken, of als oorring, ring, in je horloge, in je haar, gelijk waar, das superklein. Maar gewoon in de identiteitskaart lijkt me het simpelst, ge moet het niet te ver gaan zoeken hé
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Grayfox zei:jouw ideëen van implantaten vind ik wel een beetje belachelijk![]()

Ik neem aan dat je zoals elke andere vlaming christelijk opgevoed bent, en dan vraag je mij wat het alternatief is van een individu? Je hebt de boodschap echt niet begrepen blijkbaar. N/o maar mss volgende keer beetje beter opletten in de lessen godsdienst wanneer jezus het had over de medemens zien en behandelen als jezelfmorphius zei:Als je zo'n evolutie zonder meer aanneemt is dat dan paranoia? Ik zou eerder zeggen dat het naïef is om zo'n maatregelen niet in twijfel te trekken. De mensen verplichten een chip, waarvan men twijfelt of ze schadelijk is, onder hun huid te laten steken is toch een stap te ver? Wie bepaalt er op het einde van de dag wat er met jouw lichaam moet gebeuren? Je zei dat sommige zich te veel als individu bekijken. Wat is het aternatief dan?
het alternatief van een individu is een collectief.. mja kdenk ni da je ga snappen waarover ik het heb en kga beetje offtopic 
Ok cava, ma ik blijf erbij, volgens mij gaat da nooit gebeuren... en als het zou gebeuren, kan je ze er nog altijd uitsnijden met een mes, no worries..Dillyracer zei:dude, daar gaat heel de thread juist over![]()

Grayfox zei:Ok cava, ma ik blijf erbij, volgens mij gaat da nooit gebeuren... en als het zou gebeuren, kan je ze er nog altijd uitsnijden met een mes, no worries..![]()
waarom het ingewikkeld maken als het allemaal zo simpel is? komaan, wat denk je nu dat een chirurg gebruikt? een hamer ofzo? die gebruikt ook een mes om het eruit te halen. tis gelijk eerder jouw denken dat een beetje te simplistisch is om te verder te zien dan je slangetje lang is, mja twoen komaan wat denk je nu zelf, vind je da ook ni allemaal een beetje overdreven?twoen zei:u denken is ook maar simplistisch hoor
Grayfox zei:waarom het ingewikkeld maken als het allemaal zo simpel is? komaan, wat denk je nu dat een chirurg gebruikt? een hamer ofzo? die gebruikt ook een mes om het eruit te halen. tis gelijk eerder jouw denken dat een beetje te simplistisch is om te verder te zien dan je slangetje lang is, mja twoen komaan wat denk je nu zelf, vind je da ook ni allemaal een beetje overdreven?
). Uw simplistische opmerking over het uit snijden is ook niet zo waarheidsgetrouw. Er is hierboven ergens al een artikel gepost van een journaliste van CNN die zich ermee liet implanteren. Het heeft nadien veel doktersonderzoek gekost eer ze die chip er terug konden uithalen. Ze zijn niet zo simpel te detecteren en blijkbaar was hij ook wat gaan 'zwerven' in haar lichaam.